• A very well sorted grinder with best-in-class work flow.
• Delicious, full-bodied, full-flavored espresso.
• Versatile espresso burrs that deliver across all roast levels (rare).
• The jury is still out on how well it delivers filter coffee.
• A big upgrade from Gen 1: all of my gripes are addressed.

Star Ratings (as at time of review)

Aesthetics
Not my favorite but hey, if it floats your boat feel free to award it more stars.

Workflow
About as good as it gets. Fast, virtually no static or retained grounds, hot or cold start, grind direct into your portafilter or a catch cup. No need for RDT.

Value
Packs a lot of features into a sharp price; a justifiable jump in price from the DF64 Gen One.

Espresso
Distinctive and really quite stellar. Plenty of flavor, nut notes predominant.

Filter
It may be worthy of more stars in the hands of a filter brew expert, but I had trouble grinding coarse enough and the best I could get was a flat tasting brew with plenty of body but no clarity of specific taste notes.

• Metal, silicone bellows, timber bellows lid
• 64mm flat burr (uncoated steel)
• (L) 25.4cm x (W) 13.2cm x (H) 30.5cm
• 2kg (measured, with catch cup)
• 1400RPM
• 250w motor
• Stepless grind adjustment
• Powder coated finish

The original DF64 was my introduction to the joys of burr swapping, but I wasn’t as thrilled about the grinder itself. Generation 2 has retained the ease of burr swapping, and addressed every major gripe that I had about the original:

• The original dial collar was made from a lightweight material (aluminum?) that mis-threaded easily: fixed.
• The anti-clumper was flimsy: fixed.
• The grounds sprayed at the exit chute:
• The burr carriers were not solid or even: fixed.
• Popcorning of beans: fixed.
• Hopper capacity was only 30 grams: fixed.
• You needed three hands to get the dial collar back on, one either side of the collar to simultaneously depress the collar onto the three coil springs evenly across the entire 360 degrees, and the third hand to turn the collar while the other two hands fought against the third hand sideways motion: fixed.
• Rubber saddles that cushioned the wings of the upper burr carrier were flimsy, easily damaged or dislodged: fixed.
• Plastic wrap around the grinder body, used in place of powder coating: fixed.

Stories also abounded across various forums about the challenges of keeping the burr sets aligned, although I have to say that was not an issue with any of mine.

I owned three DF64 Gen 1s, including the latest version, 3.2, and I didn’t like any of them. So why did I buy three? The first two were for split tests in Tom’s Grinder Lab using different burr sets. I sold them once I was finished. I bought the last one to check if the old style burr springs would accommodate a specific burr set that the newer wave springs didn’t work with.

But (and this is a BIG BUT), that original was the grinder that changed the market in a way no other grinder had done before. Suddenly, we could choose from a multiple of burrs for use in the same grinder and for me, that meant that the way I viewed grinders was transformed overnight.

Being able to swap stock burrs out for SSP or Gorilla Gear or others also changed the market. That didn’t just happen because DF made burr swapping relatively easy, it was also the fact that DF made the price so low, and thereby sold so many, that the sheer volume had a massive impact on our awareness of the potential and the benefits of burr swapping.

What the Niche Zero did for single dosing, the DF64 did for burr swapping. Both were revolutions that have changed the landscape for prosumer coffee grinders.

I have no idea if the burr-swapping friendly nature of the original DF64 was done on purpose or was simply a happy by-product of keeping the design very simple. Either way, it was like Apple suddenly went open source for their software and you could choose from different operating systems and a wider variety of Apps.

No longer did I need a new grinder in order to enjoy a new coffee experience; I simply needed a new burr set. The grinder, at least in 64mm flat format, became the thing that housed all-important burr set.

And this sudden diversity of burr choice levelled the playing field for new entrants who started to compete on other feature such as motor, hoppers, anti-static devices, workflow, price, and aesthetics. If every 64mm flat burr entrant could use the same burrs from DF, Italmill, Mazzer, SSP and Gorilla Gear, the heat was on to come up with something else that was special to differentiate their offerings.

And since variable RPM is important to me, I’ll choose a DF64V over a Lagom P64: it’s less than half the price and, with the ability to use an identical burr set, I get to enjoy an identical experience in-the-cup.

September 28th, 2023, the DF64 Gen 2 landed in Tom’s Grinder Lab. This was some months after the DF64Vs had arrived, and (for me) the DF64 Gen 2 has lived in the shadow of the DF64V ever since.

On the other hand, I’ve seen many forum members and email inquirers choose the DF64 Gen 2 over the DF64V because of its leading-edge workflow, which is inarguably superior. And to be clear: the in-the-cup experience is going to be the same if you are using the same burrs. If you choose to use only the stock burrs in both grinders, you’ll still enjoy stellar espresso from each of them.

And that’s the thing. Some people value aesthetics over workflow, others value workflow over aesthetics. If you’re in the latter camp, you’ll likely be very happy with the DF64 Gen 2. And you get to keep a bit of your hard-earned cash in your bank account too.

In summary, while I personally prefer the DF64V, that’s primarily because of the looks.

That’s right: assuming the in-the-cup coffee is the same, I end up with grinders that remind me of my wife: harder work but so pretty that the extra effort is worth it 😊. (fortunately, my wife never reads my reviews.)

Gen 2 is a complete rebuild of Gen 1. And DF has done it very well indeed. Every significant thing that I didn’t like about the DF64 Gen 1 has been fixed in Gen 2.

I can’t help but feel impressed with the way that DF (a) launched with a ground-breaking burr-swapping-potential DF64 and then (b) slowly improved it with various versions but finally (c) decided that putting lipstick on the pig wasn’t going to do much and created what is in effect a whole new grinder with the DF64 Gen 2.

I have to mention the DF64V and the DF83V, which are quantum leaps forward in terms of components, design, and features. Also, don’t forget the new DF burrs which perform very well. (I can’t wait for the DF120V!)

Kudos to DF.

The Packaging

At time of writing, I’ve had nine DF grinders dropped off at my Grinder Lab and every one of them has been packed the same way: custom cut foam and double boxed with never a scratch nor a dent.

In short, there is nothing flashy about the packaging, but it is top notch protection. They would survive being thrown around and dropped better than many boxed grinders.

But please, someone tell the clever people at DF to look at recyclable packaging. There’s too much single-use foam and plastic in the box for my liking.

In addition to the grinder, the box includes a dosing cup with an extension cylinder, and several spare rubber sleeves for the portafilter forks.

Build Quality

“Solid, hefty, well finished, polished, quality.”

These are all the words I’m confident you’ll be thinking when you lift the DF64 Gen 2 out of the box.

For me, the most enduring first impression of the DF64 Gen 2 is the dial collar, which is solid steel and threads smoothly off and on the grinder body. That’s the big thing I was looking for in the DF64 Gen 2 and I’m very pleased to report that the designers, engineers, and manufacturers nailed it.

You can use the DF64 Gen 2 without the bellows. If you retain the bellows then it’s simply a matter of popping the nice timber lid off, pouring your beans in and pressing the ‘on’ button. Using the bellows helps a tiny bit but not enough for me to feel compelled to use them, while I most definitely feel the bellows are needed with the DF64V.

Also, because of the plasma generator, there is no need for RDT (where you spray the beans with a fine mist of water in order to reduce static-induced spraying of coffee grounds.

Workflow is as good as it gets and at 1400 RPM the grind time is less than 12 seconds.

The Niche Zero and Varia VS3 are two of the lowest retention grinders that I’ve had. With or without RDT, the extra grounds that are blown out of the grinder with use of bellows, does not even register 0.1 gram. Yes, you read that correctly: using the bellows will not get you even an extra one tenth of a gram.

With the DF64 Gen 2, if you don’t use the bellows, that tiny, eensy, bitsy bit of stale coffee grounds will be in your next brew. But given a 20 gram dose, it’s going to comprise less than 1/200th or < 0.5% of your total grounds. I sure as heck don’t notice the difference in the cup and I’d bet dollars to donuts that a World Barista Championship judge would fail to pick the difference in a blind taste test.

Still, if you are a bit OCD, then that is probably going to bug the heck out of you, so use the bellows as you wish. For me, I use the DF64 Gen 2, without bellows and without RDT.

Espresso

This is first burr set that I’d say does a very good job from light roast through to dark, from espresso through to latte. With most burr sets, I find a roast depth where they shine and other roast depths where I prefer a different burr set — and that includes the DF DLC Espresso burrs in the DF64V. The DF64 Gen 2, on the other hand, seems to do it all.

Filter coffee

I didn’t get any satisfaction out of these burrs for filter. That may be me, and you should certainly check with your local coffee community/forum and see what others are saying. I’m confident that my assessment for espresso can be relied but to be fair, I can’t say the same yet about my opinions on filter because at time of writing I’m still a relative newbie.

The dial collar

DF has really nailed the dial collar. Sure, if it’s not moved for a while, it needs a bit of a snap to get it going but after that it’s silky smooth. Sometimes with dial collars that are so smooth, there is a risk of ‘dial drift’ during grinding but I also haven’t seen that happen with the DF64 Gen 2.

Putting the collar back on the original DF64 was a bit like spinning one of those lottery wheels at your local fair: where it would land was anyone’s guess. The design and material used in Gen 2 is top class and it is super easy to thread correctly and it returns the zero to the six o’clock position every time. My biggest complaint about all the Gen 1 versions of both the DF64 and DF83 was how easy it was to mis-thread the collar. For me, it was a deal breaker. So I’m pleased to report that this major flaw has been addressed with both the DF64 and DF83 Gen 2 grinders.

The wave spring

When you adjust the dial collar, the springs compress or expand the gap between the two burrs and thereby allow you to adjust the grind size.

Many grinders use coil springs (Niche, Varia) but DF has moved to wave springs. The advantage or disadvantages of either are unclear to me, but I can say that in the new crop of DF grinders (DF64 Gen 2, DF64V, DF54 and DF83V), they deliver a precision that is at least as good as coil springs, and along with the updated burr chamber/carrier design and new material, they are also much easier to reassemble after a deep clean or burr swap.

The predictability and the precision

Much like it’s slight older sibling, the DF64V, the DF64 Gen 2 performs superbly when it comes to adjustability at the espresso end of the dial. Keeping the dial on the same setting of 12 for a medium/light bean resulted in an average flow rate of 1.3 ml/sec (as measured by an Acaia Lunar from the moment the first drop hit the cup three times, back to back). Opening the collar up by just one digit to 13 gave me exactly what I was hoping for: an increased flow rate by just 0.1 ml/sec which means that the Gen 2 delivers both repeatable and predictable shots. That’s music to my grinder ears and that sort of performance cannot be taken for granted. Impressive.

There is also plenty of runway for ultra-light beans providing you are using the stock burrs (less so with SSP Espresso burrs but still adequate for traditional light roasted beans).

Plasma generator

This little device neutralizes the static charge that is generated when grinding coffee beans. RDT (a light spray/misting of the beans) helps a lot with this, but the plasma generator reduces RDT to an option, not a necessity as it is with the DF64V. It works so well that I can see the day when it becomes standard issue with every grinder.

Hot or cold start

This refers to starting the grinder before (hot) or after (cold) you load the beans into the hopper. With the DF64 Gen 2, this is your choice, because either works just fine. Again, in another workflow plus, this is contrast to the DF64V where hot starting is essential in order to avoid stalling with most roast depths. The DF64 Gen 2 manual instructs us to cold start but with the anti-popcorn ring you can start either way.

• Far superior workflow to the DF64V.
• Faster than the Varia VS3.
• Tastier espresso than Niche Zero.
• Smaller and more versatile than the Niche Duo (burr swapping voids warranty)
• Cheaper than the DF83V.

To be clear: the DF64 Gen 2 is not in the top three of my favorite grinders, but the main reason is that I prefer the look of the others. Call me shallow if you like, and yes, it’s an incredibly personal thing so if that is not an issue for you, then you should definitely consider it because it is arguably the best value grinder available in the 64mm format, which is saying something because there is a lot of competition in that format.

There are now only small niggles that I have about the DF64 Gen 2, and those could easily be addressed in Gen 2 version 1.1.

The dial collar numbers and markings

The numbers are in bands of five. So five, ten, fifteen etc. But they are positioned high above the individual marks that denote the numbers in between those bands e.g. six, seven, eight, nine. For espresso, I found myself counting the individual marks from zero because it wasn’t clear which mark corresponded to a particular number. Not a biggie, but an annoyance and inconvenience that could be easily fixed.

The chunkiness

The Gen 2 is the same size as the Gen 1 but having had the DF64V sitting on my bench for nine months, the Gen 2 just seems unnecessarily chubby.

The diameter of the underside of timber bellows cap

The timber cap is nicely done from a material and aesthetics perspective. But it only fits on the bellows and if you decide (like me) that you don’t want the bellows then then cap doesn’t fit on top of the upper burr carrier which doubles as hopper. Contrast this to the Varia VS3 where if you do away with the bellows, the lid fits snugly on to the hopper.

From a functional point of view, this misstep is mostly a non-event because unlike the Varia VS3, the DF64 Gen 2 has an anti-popcorn device and it only sprays the odd bit of bean if you go lid free. But from an aesthetics perspective, it sucks. And I value aesthetics just below the in-the-cup espresso, so it’s a bigger deal for me than it is for most. (Getting annoyed at trivial little things seems to be the cross I bear in my journey through the world of coffee grinders.)

SSP espresso burrs

This is not a gripe, more of a FYI: SSP Espresso (HU) burrs don’t have a lot of runway at the espresso end of your grind range. They will work at ‘3’ on the dial for a classic light roast but that doesn’t leave you much room for anything lighter. To be fair, you’re unlikely to be grinding Nordic Light for espresso but if that’s your thing, this is not the grinder for you. (Note: the DF64V is the same in this respect.)

The big red plastic ‘on’ button

Why? What were you thinking DF? Did you run out of alloy or white or even black buttons? I can only assume, given that mine was one of the first cabs off the rank, that this has since been sorted. Mr. & Mrs. DF, maybe talk to the nice people at Varia and ask them where they get their on/off buttons from.

No ‘on’ light.

I’m smiling as I type this because I genuinely don’t know if my DF64 Gen 2 is an outlier but there is no light, despite the button being one of those light red opaque plastic buttons that typically comes with LEDs lighting them up.

I’m pretty happy with no light because I don’t see the need for a light indicating that the grinder has power, when it’s never without power.

And frankly, when my wife goes to the kitchen to get some water in the middle of the night, I can do without yet another red LED glowing in the dark to reminding my wife of how many grinders are sitting on my bench. It’s beginning to look like the cockpit of a 747.

Anti-popcorn plate

The upper burr carrier and the hopper into which you pour your beans are one and the same, and they are very impressive in terms of aesthetics, quality of material, and functionality. The actual anti-popcorn plate itself look like an afterthought, soldered on by hand. It works just fine, and you don’t have to look at it unless you are cleaning the grinder but, me being me, it just bugs me because the design is not smoothly integrated into the rest of the grinder. It’s the same on the DF64V and DF83V: the soldering solution is a triumph of function over form. And I get it: many will wonder why I’m making a fuss about it, but what can I say, it bugs me that a finishing touch has not been as thoughtfully designed as the rest of the grinder.

That said, the housing for the anti-popcorn plate is an elegant piece of art and utilizes a nifty little rubber gasket that makes it super easy to bed the whole part into place.

The little rubber fork sleeves.

On my white DF64 Gen 2, the forks which hold the catch cup or portafilter are the same color as the body of the grinder and that integration looks slick. The challenge with that is they need some form of protection from the heavy steel commonly used in portafilters. DF’s solution is to provide little rubber sleeves that slide on to the forks, but these are prone to wearing out very quickly if you are grinding directly into a portafilter. I’m not sure what the solution is (perhaps use heavier grade rubber?), but it’s another issue that could be addressed in version 1.1.

Thin silicon gasket between the upper burr and carrier

In the original DF, the rubber saddles that the burr carrier wings nestled into were thin and not fixed in place. As a result, they were easily mangled or dislodged. In the DF64 Gen 2, DF made the rubber thicker and fixed them in place. Problem solved.

That’s to illustrate a similar complaint that I have about the very thin and easily stretched/damaged silicon gasket that sits between the upper burr and the carrier. When you deep clean your Gen 2 or you swap the burrs out, this gasket need to be removed and cleaned. You need to be very careful not to stretch it out of shape. It’s a small issue but one that needs to be addressed in the next version. In the meantime, just take care. It’s the sort of small niggle that still separates a DF grinder from others that are at the next level of quality components. Not a hard one to fix though.

The gap at the base

Another small niggle. The body of the grinder fits inside a base/stand that features a raised collar (which the body slides into). There is a gap between that collar and the body, into which little coffee grounds love to sit on or slip into. I’d like to see a seal of some sort, like a rubber or silicon scarf, that keeps grounds out of the gap and makes it easier to wipe down.

Forum members pet peeves

For this review I asked owners on www.CoffeeSnobs.com.au for their likes and dislikes. Here’s an unedited list of dislikes:

• Checked burr alignment and it was pretty poor out of the box. Didn’t enjoy the faffing about to place shims. How much difference it makes I’m not sure, but I prefer to know that the alignment is correct.
• The bellows could be more tightly attached to the grinder as I need two hands to stop it from becoming dislodged when loading beans.
• I would like it to have an auto shut-off when grinding is finished.
• Maintenance wise, I haven’t pulled it apart yet so I can’t see the level of retention or if the declumper collects a lot of dust as others have alleged.

The burrs

I’ve touched on these above, but for my espresso taste buds, the new DF burrs are a big step up from the previous stock burrs which were Italmill. They also offer a different tasting espresso with more nutty taste notes predominant, compared to the DF DLC coated burrs. Given that the geometry appear to be the same, I was very surprised to find that the difference between the two is quite distinctive. I would have bet dollars to donuts that it would taste the same.

Precision of grind adjustments

The DF64 Gen 2 offers adequate adjustability at the espresso end of the range, and a small adjustment in the dial results in a predictable change to the flow rate. Whilst this may sound like something every grinder should do (I agree) some do it straight out of the box and other take their time during seasoning to offer anything that is remotely consistent. Like all new burrs, the DF64 Gen 2 burrs need seasoning to produce espresso at their maximum potential, but they can be used without the frustration of “chasing the dial” right out of the box.

Super low retention, virtually static free

I’ve covered this above but just to repeat: the combination of design, silky smooth surfaces and the plasma generator make this a very low retention grinder, with or without RDT.

Quality of the metal

This is a big step up from the original and it especially stands out in the dial collar, the hopper, and the burr carriers, which are now all really top notch.

Here’s a list of likes from a couple of forum members

From @MaryYu (thanks Mary!):

• It’s fast – 12.5g in less than 6 seconds.
• It’s Quieter than my previous grinder and the pump on my BDB. Fears of screeching or high pitched whine appear unfounded.
• The dosing cup is a nifty two part metal cup. I can use the top cup directly on my portafilter, or attached to the lower cup. It fits my stock BDB filter handle very well, so I am tending to grind directly into my portafilter with the upper cup attached. The BDB portafilter also slots directly into the cup holder arm, which is very sturdy.
• The bellows work well in extracting retained grindings and also flattening the grind in the portafilter, without creating too much mess.
• The “ioniser” and declumper seem to be working well. I have to say though that my SGP was also not too messy. The DF64 definitely has less clumping though.
• No inkling of stalling or hesitation with my medium to dark roasts. I am only doing cold starts.
• I only grind for espresso.
• No sign of any drift in the grind setting and the indicator gauge is useful for keeping track of the grind setting.
• Tasting notes: I have only tried milk coffees and my taste buds are well past their use-by date, so I can’t say that the coffee tastes any better. 🙁

From AaronL (thanks Aaron):

• Fast grinding
• Fluffy grinds
• No need for rdt
• Low retention
• Feels solidly built
• Plenty of range for any brew method
• Easy to move between different grind settings
• Easy to clean. Threads on adjustment collar are clear of the grinds chamber which reduces risk of jamming.
• Noise is a non- issue

Just a smidgen over US$100 extra for the Gen 2 over the Gen 1, no contest.

Add another US$100 to your budget and you have the potential dilemma of choosing between the DF64 Gen 2 and the DF64V.

If for some strange reason you decide that you want the coated DF burrs (DLC) that come with the DF64V you can easily replace the stock burrs for relatively low price.

The main two things that the DF64V has that the DF64 Gen doesn’t is variable RPM and a slimmer form factor.

To offset that, the DF64 Gen 2 offers a workflow that doesn’t need RDT, has a very effective anti-static plasma generator thingy, can grind directly into the portafilter, and can be used quite well without a bellows.

I haven’t yet done any blind taste comparisons with variable RPM but it’s on Tom’s Grinder Lab list of Things To Play With. IF (and it’s still a big IF), variable RPM adds a significant and desirable difference in the cup, then that’s another plus for the DF64V, but I doubt that it will.

Does the DF64 Gen 2 still need WDT? Of course it does. I don’t believe that you can have great consistency, shot after shot, without some sort of WDT, magic tumblers or not, and regardless of what number a refractometer displays. If you want consistency, grab a puck rake or fancy pants spinning thing but either way, WDT has been proven to improve consistency of flavor.

Any prosumer who:

• wants a top notch in-the-cup espresso result and
• who places a high value on faff-free preparation and
• who get a kick out of maximising their bang-for-buck when buying a grinder.

Who may want to keep looking

The only group whom I think would want to avoid the DF64 Gen 2 are those who predominantly drink filter — and if that’s you, may I suggest looking at a Fellow Ode.

Also, this is not a quiet grinder, and the sound includes a pitch which some will find unpleasant. If high pitched noises are not your thing, avoid the entire crop of new DF grinders, and look at a Varia VS3 or the super quiet Varia Evo (with motor).

If faff-free grinding is important to you, then you’d be hard pressed to find a better flat burr, espresso-yummy grinder for this price point.

And the DF64 Gen 2 will mitigate the urge to upgrade your grinder. Simply pop in an SSP or Gorilla Gear burr or even a DF DLC Espresso and you’ll save a ton over buying a whole new grinder. I love that!

• A very well sorted grinder with best-in-class work flow.
• Delicious, full-bodied, full-flavored espresso.
• Versatile espresso burrs that deliver across all roast levels (rare).
• The jury is still out on how well it delivers filter coffee.
• A big upgrade from Gen 1: all of my gripes are addressed.